Numetal/Retromux

Pavel

@Gashlycrumb said in Numetal/Retromux:

taking risks for and licking the ass of a “leader” who insulted them, openly informed them that he’d fuck them over at the slightest chance, and never rewarded them

Isn’t this just on-theme for… Vampire?

I guess it’d depend on whether they’re doing that to the characters or to the players. Given it’s PC leadership in WoD, it could be either or both.

MisterBoring

@Pavel said in Numetal/Retromux:

in WoD, it could be either or both.

Very Very true.

The whole shading them out of plot thing is definitely an asshole move though.

Gashlycrumb

@MisterBoring said in Numetal/Retromux:

Isn’t this just on-theme for… Vampire?

Erm, yes, in the sense that drinking blood is on-theme for vampire. No, in the sense that dropping Peter Dinklage into a wood-chipper and enjoying him as a slurpee on stage during the first act of Twelfth Night in Central Park is not.

You’re not supposed to be able to maintain power by making everyone refuse to cooperate with you. There was a fair bit of “well, I have to quit the game because I’ve got a herniated disk from bending over backwards coming up with IC excuses to continue to deal with this ass and there’s no other way to get involved.”

Pavel

@Gashlycrumb said in Numetal/Retromux:

You’re not supposed to be able to maintain power by making everyone refuse to cooperate with you.

Ah, the <insert political party> gambit.

somasatori

@Pavel said in Numetal/Retromux:

@Gashlycrumb said in Numetal/Retromux:
<insert political party>

Hate those guys

Jennkryst

@Gashlycrumb said in Numetal/Retromux:

You’re not supposed to be able to maintain power by making everyone refuse to cooperate with you.

At a point, just attempt the IC coup and if you die you die, OR new prince.

Gashlycrumb

@Pavel Yeah. This resemblence makes it all the more infuriating.

@Jennkryst Stupidly enough, I was actually directly told that I wasn’t allowed to try to do that.

Jennkryst

@Gashlycrumb Bold of them to assume they can stop you from @emitting and +rolling. Sure they can say you fail, but then its blatant cheating on their part that everyone can see.

Gashlycrumb

@Jennkryst Eehh. Well, fact is, I told the GM what I was trying to do and was told I couldn’t try. It required. GMing. And NPCs and stuff. I guess I could have just run in and tried to shoot him or something, but an intelligent plan that ought to have had a chance of working rather than just being a disruptive kamikaze scene, no.

MisterBoring

@Gashlycrumb said in Numetal/Retromux:

just being a disruptive kamikaze scene, no.

If enough PCs take disruptive kamikaze scenes at the PC leadership, then one would hope staff would take that as a sign that something is amiss in Denmark.

Wizz

alt text

if you’ve reached a point in a game where you are legitimately considering ham-fistedly trying to force a GM into a scene they have explicitly told you they aren’t going to run, I think it’s time to hang up the cape and put the fang caps away, lol.

Gashlycrumb

@Wizz This.

I, and others, stuggled to come up with IC reasons to deal with this character, and staff knew it. I, and many others, reported this player’s OOC rudeness to staff repeatedly. (Including a comical moment where the staffer told me how they’d had a talk with the player about their rudeness and the problem was solved, while at the same time the player was paging me rudely, and I told the staffer that was happening and the problem clearly not solved.) Staff knew.

I don’t mind an antangonist/antagonizing PC around. That’s fun. Having to force my character to act against his own interests in order to participate was the problem. Having him launch a suicide attack is, y’know, the same damn thing.

The lesson is more: a) Listen to players when they say another player is a problem, and before they decide to give up and leave or try to blow up the game and leave b) restrain your model-world building at least to the point where you do not need to assign plot-armour to PCs, ‘fudge’ rules to save them from their mistakes, or put up with them being rude, because losing them would lay waste to the setting, and c) Avoid Retro, where supposedly a player who enjoyed such a situation, considered it fair and cool, and bitched about how hard done by he was that nobody liked him, is staffing.

MisterBoring

@Gashlycrumb said in Numetal/Retromux:

Having to force my character to act against his own interests in order to participate was the problem.

This is a very interesting statement, because for some people, asking their characters to act against their own interests is good RP.

Pavel

@MisterBoring said in Numetal/Retromux:

@Gashlycrumb said in Numetal/Retromux:

Having to force my character to act against his own interests in order to participate was the problem.

This is a very interesting statement, because for some people, asking their characters to act against their own interests is good RP.

There’s a big difference between characters acting against their own interests to tell a good story, and a player being forced to play a character acting against their own interests to get any participation at all. One is storytelling, the other is denying player agency.

Autumn

@Gashlycrumb said in Numetal/Retromux:

b) restrain your model-world building at least to the point where you do not need to assign plot-armour to PCs, ‘fudge’ rules to save them from their mistakes, or put up with them being rude, because losing them would lay waste to the setting

At this point I tend to assume that any game with a PC vampire Prince, werewolf sept alpha, changeling overlord of the whole area covered by the game, etc., is guilty until proven innocent.

Gashlycrumb

@MisterBoring said in Numetal/Retromux:

@Gashlycrumb said in Numetal/Retromux:

Having to force my character to act against his own interests in order to participate was the problem.

This is a very interesting statement, because for some people, asking their characters to act against their own interests is good RP.

Erm, what?

Larry Leader tells your PC, “Fuck you, you useless fuck. Now lick my asshole for a few hours every week if you want me to give you the chance to do something that will benefit me and almost certainly harm you. I will not pay you for it. I won’t even let it improve your reputation if I can prevent that, and I can.”

So your PC does it 'cause that’s good RP?

Prototart

@MisterBoring said in Numetal/Retromux:

@Gashlycrumb said in Numetal/Retromux:

Having to force my character to act against his own interests in order to participate was the problem.

This is a very interesting statement, because for some people, asking their characters to act against their own interests is good RP.

Just because you’re into spanking doesn’t mean you’ll be cool with somebody pulling out a scourge.

Jennkryst

@Gashlycrumb No, my PC stabs Larry Leader in the face. And when staff goes ‘no this is not allowed’ go ‘I dunno, it sure looks like I got enough successes to kill Larry and take the throne’ and then when I get PK’d other people will maybe quit due to staff cheating fuckery. Or not. But whatevs.

Ashkuri

WOD players are you guys okay??

Muse

Hi @Autumn for clarity, the Prince, Sept Alpha, etc at Retro are NPCs. I also think it’s best for the game and community when NPCs hold these pivotal leadership positions.

I recognize there are several voices here saying ‘I tried, I saw this concerning thing, I felt like I got no traction when voicing my concerns, and I left.’ Which is all very reasonable to me. This hobby is an investment and if it’s not fun, it’s hard to want to continue to invest. I think we’ve all had experiences with this.

I would, however, encourage people with concerns to connect with the HSTs directly, and formally. This helps us differentiate between frustrations that are being vented, and a call for action. It also pulls all three of the HSTs into a discussion, versus just the Sphere lead, about what’s happening, and it helps establish a pattern of behavior (we do track things).

Our current staff line up is:

Chaos (HST, Lead: Vampire)
Daedalus (HST, Mage Lead, Tech)
Ori (HST, Shifter Lead)
Inari (Admin: Build)
Inky (Changeling and Wraith Lead)
Headcrab (Admin: Vampire)
Navi (Admin: Shifter)
Mr. Gutsy (ST: Shifter)
Pumpkinhead (ST: Shifter)
Jaskier (ST: Shifter)

There’s been a lot of changes among staff over the past year, there’s also been a lot of changes in the game itself. We’ve grown a lot, and our hope is to continue to grow in a way that promotes a healthy game, with a strong community, that operates with high levels of trust. That has always been where the best stories can be told, and best experiences can be had, and I want us to get there.

But there’s a lot of history, and frankly, a lot of trauma in this community, and we’re all human. It takes time to make things better, and communication, but we’re going to keep trying, and I encourage you guys to keep trying too. Even if it’s not with us.

-Muse/Ori