<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" version="2.0"><channel><title><![CDATA[Echoes of the Past: Problem Players]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">What do you do when the present echoes back to nightmares of days long gone? What can you do, except ring the alarm bells and hope that someone can recognise a subtle sort of danger?</p>
<p dir="auto">Hi, Brand MU Day. My handle is EvilGrayson. Many of you have encountered me over the years; I’ve rarely been shy about who I am and who I’ve been, and I’ve been on this board and its predecessors back to around 2000. I’ve seen any amount of shit go down in that time, and while I might not be much good at dealing with people in RL, I am a professional when it comes to spotting patterns. And yesterday I was able to put a name to a pattern that had been slowly revealing itself for months.</p>
<p dir="auto">One of the people I’ve been - the one most relevant to this particular topic, at least - was Judge Dredd, Shifter staff and then Wizard on Denver: Dark Destiny by Night. Or was it Dark Destiny: Denver by Night. I don’t know, it’s a long time ago and it was a very silly name even back then.</p>
<p dir="auto">Denver died a long time ago, in large part because of the actions of two specific people and those who enabled them - and because those of us who should have stopped it didn’t have anything specific to apply the hammer for.</p>
<p dir="auto">VASpider and Seanan McGuire would lure people into friendship by offering great RP and an in to the in crowd, while making it very clear to the rest of their spheres that there was an in crowd and they weren’t in it (but if they were good enough, they could be!). But. There was always at least one target - someone who’d drawn their attention, and had to be removed at all costs. They’d spin up rumours IC and OOC, take things in the worst possible lights, and turn their followers on them as well. And then when one was gone, another person was declared anathema, and forced off the game through similar tactics. It was subtle and it was vicious and outside their cadre it wasn’t really noticeable until you were the target - and one of them was staff, which meant they had a much easier time of covering it up and excusing it. And if that target happened to be someone who had been part of the in crowd, it was even more vicious as all their friends turned on them for no apparent reason.</p>
<p dir="auto">How does this bear on now? After staffing for the death of Arx burnt me out for months, I finally felt up to RP again. I created a new character on an oWoD game, a sidekick for an OOC friend I’d made on Arx - a ghoul, called Grayson. If you know me you know I play archetypes, and I was easing back into RP so who else would I play? So. Said ghoul encountered a werewolf, a great RPer and friendly sort of player who promptly decided this ghoul was the best thing since sliced Bane - but the werewolf wanted the ghoul all for himself. When the werewolf tried to get between Grayson and his domitor I started getting suspicious. When they tried to isolate me from my domitor’s player OOC as well, I was annoyed. When they tried to isolate my domitor’s player and character from his whole coterie, I was upset. When I started setting boundaries and disentangling my character from the werewolf, everything changed. And when the first time the werewolf’s new vampire alt met Grayson it was with a vicious and entirely unwarranted insult, only just stopping short of the r-word, I was angry. And through it all, the werewolf’s player’s partner was playing a senior vampire of a different faction, and making life harder as well. Overall I was left feeling that I didn’t particularly want to be anywhere that either of them were, and as soon as that became clear I dropped a note to staff that I was distinctly uncomfortable.</p>
<p dir="auto">Soon after that, I and a few others were invited to a closed beta for a new game. Song of Blood was being started up by a player from that first oWoD game, and they’d invited a few core people to help them get the game up and running. Among those were the two problem players. The vampire player ended up in a position of power IC and with one of her allies in a staff position, and half the playerbase were her associates and reinforced her every whim - which just so happened to align with the werewolf player’s, who was in this case playing her ghoul. My OOC friend from the first oWoD game was made to feel entirely unwelcome and effectively driven off before chargen, and the game swiftly became the vampire player show. I ended up retiring my character because I’d seen the problem but had neither the energy nor the position to do anything about it, and on my way out I laid out for the head wizard the nature of a problem that they’d seen but not truly understood until it was too late. After that conversation, it seems that the head wizard vanished on that game and on the oWoD game, and Song of Blood - and possibly that staffer’s entire MU* career - appears to have ended. I hope that’s not the case, but it’s another loss to lay at their door.</p>
<p dir="auto">While Song of Blood was active and my OOC friend was still in chargen, the problem players were discussing the oWoD game on the Public channel, including comments and complaints about staff there - and bragging about friendship and contacts, knowledge of alts and oversharing of private details, just to reinforce their connections and their power. My OOC friend and I - and the head wizard on Song of Blood - repeatedly told them that this wasn’t okay and they needed to stop, but they carried on regardless. We know all sorts of details about IC relationships on the oWoD game that we didn’t want to learn, all because they wanted to persuade the undecided to join their growing powerbase and be brought along as the vampire and whichever alt the werewolf’s player was on this week rose to power. This also served as notice to my OOC friend that their character was utterly powerless against them. That character has barely gone out in public since.</p>
<p dir="auto">Having watched them kill a game in that fashion and gain more friends and more enablers in so doing, I joined a freshly-opened game and created a Garou there in a brand new sphere. A week or two ago a new pack joined - the only pack - with characters that were rewrites of the werewolf and vampire player’s oWoD wolves in it. I battened down the hatches and waited for the attacks to start, because my character was an obvious target and I expected they knew he was my character. Two nights ago, the attacks began, and over the course of the day after I realised what the whole pattern was and where I’d seen it before.</p>
<p dir="auto">If you’ve never heard of VASpider and Seanan McGuire, they were notorious in days gone by. Their tactics involved being brilliant players and seeming trustworthy, friendly and outgoing, and obvious candidates for power IC and OOC. However, the only people permitted in their orbit were those who enabled them. They thought I was one of their enablers, although I wasn’t - much as the werewolf thought I was one of his enablers, although I wasn’t. VASpider invited me to their private MU*, and I still didn’t see what they and Seanan were really doing until Denver was in its last throes and it was too late to save it.</p>
<p dir="auto">Why am I bringing up all this? Because it’s way too late for Denver and it’s too late for Song of Blood, but it’s not too late for the games these problem players are on now - and because the community needs to know this shit is going on again in new (and slightly less subtle) form. I lost my game to the very behaviours I’m seeing in these problem players; gathering a group of enablers to persuade everyone this is fine while they remove their target’s desire to log in or even play MU* again? That’s not normal and it’s not right and it needs to be stopped, pronto. The enablers are usually too caught up in a storm of charisma and lovebombing to notice; I wasn’t caught by it, but that’s because I saw this shit done by the best decades ago and didn’t quite fall for it then either.</p>
<p dir="auto">I’ve spent more than 25 years playing on and staffing MU*s. I think of the game before myself - and I feel duty-bound to bring all this to the attention of the community. And perhaps the worst of it is that I don’t believe that their intent is to bring harm to the game, but in reality their intent doesn’t matter. Their actions - and the results of those actions - are absolutely detrimental to any game that allows them.</p>
<p dir="auto">There is a pattern, and that pattern kills games, all without treading over any of the usual firm lines that lead to a banhammer. I don’t want to see more games die to the same old patterns. But I’m also being very nonspecific right now, because I don’t want to kick off one of the witch-hunts of old either, or get my arse banned from here in what would be a first time for a MU* forum ban in all my long existence in this hobby. If staff want to check the identity of someone they’re welcome to do so by DM, or if the admins here grant permission I’ll be able to share more then. In the meantime, stay safe and look after each other.</p>
<p dir="auto">In sorrow, I am<br />
EvilGrayson, once known as Judge Dredd of Denver</p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/topic/565/echoes-of-the-past-problem-players</link><generator>RSS for Node</generator><lastBuildDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2026 11:46:00 GMT</lastBuildDate><atom:link href="https://brandmu.day/topic/565.rss" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml"/><pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2025 21:47:27 GMT</pubDate><ttl>60</ttl><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Fri, 06 Jun 2025 09:26:48 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/4">@Pavel</a> said in <a href="/post/25886">Echoes of the Past: Problem Players</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/165">@Aria</a> said in <a href="/post/25885">Echoes of the Past: Problem Players</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p dir="auto">‘A close up of a man with a mustache and a suit.’</p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto"><img src="https://media.tenor.com/Up9zNFep3tgAAAAC/fair-true.gif" alt="Fair True GIF" class=" img-fluid img-markdown" /></p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto"><img src="https://media.tenor.com/fVtcUsX--ZsAAAAC/correct-futurama.gif" alt="a cartoon of a man holding a piece of paper that says you are technically correct" class=" img-fluid img-markdown" /></p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25913</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25913</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Wuff]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2025 09:26:48 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Fri, 06 Jun 2025 02:07:50 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/4">@Pavel</a> said in <a href="/post/25734">Echoes of the Past: Problem Players</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/141">@Juniper</a> said in <a href="/post/25731">Echoes of the Past: Problem Players</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p dir="auto">I think I’m safe though, because WoD isn’t something I play in.</p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto">I think the propensity for reporting this sort of thing from WoD games is mostly selection bias. The predecessors of this kind of board were heavily slanted towards WoD players, so we heard from WoD players about WoD players. I’d wager that this kind of behaviour would be just as prevalent on Star Wars MUDs or furry MUCKs or whatever else, we just don’t hear about it as much because we’re not focused on them.</p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto">absolutely the case, this shit is rampant on comic games it just never gets posted here because there are like three of them left and they’re all the same people and you’ll be banished to the steppes and subject to an endless whisper campaign if you, say, outed one of their friends as a serial sex pest eight years ago</p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25903</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25903</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Prototart]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2025 02:07:50 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Thu, 05 Jun 2025 01:22:54 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/165">@Aria</a> said in <a href="/post/25885">Echoes of the Past: Problem Players</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p dir="auto">‘A close up of a man with a mustache and a suit.’</p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto"><img src="https://media.tenor.com/Up9zNFep3tgAAAAC/fair-true.gif" alt="Fair True GIF" class=" img-fluid img-markdown" /></p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25886</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25886</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Pavel]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2025 01:22:54 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Thu, 05 Jun 2025 01:21:52 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/4">@Pavel</a> said in <a href="/post/25884">Echoes of the Past: Problem Players</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/167">@insomniac</a> <img src="https://media.tenor.com/ZA2_zAb0ZvAAAAAC/stalin-stare.gif" alt="a close up of a man with a mustache and a suit ." class=" img-fluid img-markdown" /></p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto">The alt text for this image is fantastic.</p>
<p dir="auto">‘A close up of a man with a mustache and a suit.’</p>
<p dir="auto">I, uhhh, I think someone missed some important details here.</p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25885</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25885</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Aria]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2025 01:21:52 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Thu, 05 Jun 2025 01:15:38 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/167">@insomniac</a> <img src="https://media.tenor.com/ZA2_zAb0ZvAAAAAC/stalin-stare.gif" alt="a close up of a man with a mustache and a suit ." class=" img-fluid img-markdown" /></p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25884</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25884</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Pavel]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2025 01:15:38 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Thu, 05 Jun 2025 01:04:55 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/4">@Pavel</a> said in <a href="/post/25783">Echoes of the Past: Problem Players</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/111">@Gashlycrumb</a> The worst part of some of the more… famous problem players, especially those with whom I have been the most acquainted, is just how vital they make themselves to be. They provide story like nobody’s business, take over all those little jobs that nobody wants to do but need to get done. It’s like waking up one day to find out the janitor is actually Stalin.</p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto">(that, basically, being how Stalin took power)</p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25883</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25883</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[insomniac]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2025 01:04:55 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Wed, 04 Jun 2025 00:01:54 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/408">@Chiron</a> I wouldn’t even begin to know how to pronounce that one.</p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25858</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25858</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Pavel]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2025 00:01:54 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Tue, 03 Jun 2025 11:53:49 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/4">@Pavel</a> or Cadhla.</p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25842</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25842</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Chiron]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2025 11:53:49 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Mon, 02 Jun 2025 11:37:25 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/95">@catzilla</a> said in <a href="/post/25812">Echoes of the Past: Problem Players</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/40">@Evilgrayson</a>  Wait, wait. Are you saying that the player(s) on this game in question are VASpider and crew? I thought you were just using VASpider as an example of what this player and crew are doing.</p>
<p dir="auto">If you are saying it is Spider, please report it to the staff of the game. I already had one game I loved ruined by her, I don’t want another.</p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto">It’s not Spider, no - just someone using the same tactics - and it’s been reported to staff on both extant games. What staff choose to do with that information is up to them.</p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25833</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25833</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Evilgrayson]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2025 11:37:25 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Mon, 02 Jun 2025 00:05:33 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/60">@MisterBoring</a> No doubt I just forgot. There were a handful of people who got banned there pretty shortly after joining, I can only remember who one of 'em was.</p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25818</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25818</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Gashlycrumb]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2025 00:05:33 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Sun, 01 Jun 2025 23:56:34 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/111">@Gashlycrumb</a> Yeah, I just checked old posts here, someone mentioned he got banned at MN, check the thread on Liberation from around October 12, 2023. So if he wasn’t there, I’m not the only person who believes he got banned there.</p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25817</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25817</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[MisterBoring]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2025 23:56:34 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Sun, 01 Jun 2025 23:51:04 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/60">@MisterBoring</a> I don’t think he was ever there.</p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25816</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25816</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Gashlycrumb]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2025 23:51:04 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Sun, 01 Jun 2025 23:44:19 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/111">@Gashlycrumb</a> The only person I know of getting removed from MN was Polk, and I’m pretty sure that wasn’t a case of toxic intentional gatecrashing.</p>
<p dir="auto"><img src="https://media.tenor.com/Zc-ZTPzlEHoAAAAC/i-don%27t-know-idk.gif" alt="elmo from sesame street standing in front of a wall" class=" img-fluid img-markdown" /></p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25815</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25815</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[MisterBoring]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2025 23:44:19 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Sun, 01 Jun 2025 23:30:05 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/60">@MisterBoring</a> MN. So far as I know, you haven’t accused me of that twice. And the features all the players there had, the channels-to-discord and the activity-logger thing. Though maybe you weren’t even playing there, I dunno. It’s not significant anyway.</p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25814</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25814</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Gashlycrumb]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2025 23:30:05 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Sun, 01 Jun 2025 23:22:56 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/111">@Gashlycrumb</a> said in <a href="/post/25808">Echoes of the Past: Problem Players</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p dir="auto">One of the peculiar things about that very peculiar incident was that some of my crimes were easily disprovable using MU-features. I imagine you didn’t investigate.</p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto">What game in specific was this, and what feature access do you think I possessed?</p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25813</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25813</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[MisterBoring]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2025 23:22:56 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Sun, 01 Jun 2025 22:24:52 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/40">@Evilgrayson</a>  Wait, wait. Are you saying that the player(s) on this game in question are VASpider and crew? I thought you were just using VASpider as an example of what this player and crew are doing.</p>
<p dir="auto">If you are saying it is Spider, please report it to the staff of the game. I already had one game I loved ruined by her, I don’t want another.</p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25812</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25812</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[catzilla]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2025 22:24:52 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Sun, 01 Jun 2025 21:25:03 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/4">@Pavel</a> Funny thing, but my experience of Spider was characterised by them being nice and quite pleasant to chat with and a lot of fun for casual RP, but sharply warning me off for this very gatecrashing of which we speak when I tried to be involved in the story they provided. Happened over at least three games.</p>
<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/60">@MisterBoring</a> One of the peculiar things about that very peculiar incident was that some of my crimes were easily disprovable using MU-features. I imagine you didn’t investigate. And why would you? You believed someone you liked and trusted. Which is the same reason I was there at all, and why I failed to leave when the shit started.</p>
<p dir="auto">I think most of us are familiar with that situation. Right now I’ve got two RP-buddies I consider friends whom other friends have described as manipulative and toxic hurtful fun-crushers. One by a friend I trust <em>more</em>, but I don’t see it myself so, well, that’s a puzzler and an unhappy situation. The other by people whom I am quite sure were flying-monkey-ing/bandwagoning/dogpiling over a mildly annoying behaviour that others on that game have turned up to eyeball-searingly infuriating without consequences.</p>
<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/4">@Pavel</a> said in <a href="/post/25787">Echoes of the Past: Problem Players</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/541">@InkGolem</a> I think it’s subtly different. You’ve got people who invest so much time and effort and <em>therefore</em> they meltdown horribly, but then you have those people who invest so much time and effort <em>in order to</em> engage in toxic behaviour.</p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto">There’s also that trip where a manipulative abuser type purposefully propels somebody into a meltdown <em>in order to make that somebody appear unstable and toxic</em>  thus proving that the somebody deserves the harsh treatment that prompted them to, uh. Meltdown and prove that they deserve harsh treatment.</p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25808</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25808</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Gashlycrumb]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2025 21:25:03 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Sun, 01 Jun 2025 07:02:03 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/4">@Pavel</a> This times 1,000!</p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25788</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25788</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Muscle Car]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2025 07:02:03 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Sun, 01 Jun 2025 05:57:50 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/541">@InkGolem</a> I think it’s subtly different. You’ve got people who invest so much time and effort and <em>therefore</em> they meltdown horribly, but then you have those people who invest so much time and effort <em>in order to</em> engage in toxic behaviour.</p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25787</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25787</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Pavel]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2025 05:57:50 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Sun, 01 Jun 2025 05:28:22 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/4">@Pavel</a> I think it’s part and parcel.  The overinvestment is both one of time and emotional connection.  You see it in LARP as well – when people choose the imaginary life and identity over their real one, you get the recipe for Chernobyl-caliber meltdowns.</p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25785</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25785</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[InkGolem]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2025 05:28:22 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Sun, 01 Jun 2025 04:38:35 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/111">@Gashlycrumb</a> said in <a href="/post/25772">Echoes of the Past: Problem Players</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p dir="auto">So I try to get involved, and later discover that people think I’m trying to gatecrash even before I find out that the opening to participation I think I saw isn’t viable. And presumably it’s taken as malicious social engineering when I react to that by directly OOCly asking for plot-runners to open things up such that I can play.</p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto">Gatecrashing can be unintentional if a certain level of transparency isn’t maintained between all players and staff. Dropping in unannounced when a big scene is going on can be unintentional gatecrashing if a player isn’t aware of a planned plot event or whatever going on for a specific faction. It happens, and it’s on both the player doing the dropping in and the staff running that scene to civilly, and transparently, work out that the scene is not open for the PC in question, and why. If a player has a concern regarding a plot not being open to their PC, they should approach staff with a good level of transparency, so that the players of the faction or skill group or whatever that the plot is meant for doesn’t assume someone is trying to grab their turn in the spotlight.</p>
<p dir="auto">At the same time, intentional toxic gatecrashers do exist, and I’ve seen them in most of the genres of games I’ve played in (be it fantasy, sci-fi, WoD, other horror, post apocalyptic, or whatever). I’ve witnessed players use OOC methodology to circumvent both coded restrictions in the game (such as times I’ve seen players use coded meeting commands to circumvent faction locks on rooms and exits) as well as IC restrictions to accessing plot (in one fantasy game I was part of, some players were allowed to help run the central plots of the game without staff level access, and a player straight up lied about having the ability to fly when it came time to attack a pirate airship in the middle of a wilderness area. The player running the plot didn’t have the ability to confirm that, and when they turned the logs in to staff, there was a whole mess of drama about it that resulted in retcons and the player in question being banned).</p>
<p dir="auto">I did accuse you of that. If it was inaccurate, I do apologize, but I was basing those accusations on the information available to me to formulate what I believed was the most accurate chain of events. The transparency of the situation, or lack thereof, is the culprit in that specific accusation.</p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25784</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25784</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[MisterBoring]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2025 04:38:35 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Sun, 01 Jun 2025 04:24:13 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/111">@Gashlycrumb</a> The worst part of some of the more… famous problem players, especially those with whom I have been the most acquainted, is just how vital they make themselves to be. They provide story like nobody’s business, take over all those little jobs that nobody wants to do but need to get done. It’s like waking up one day to find out the janitor is actually Stalin.</p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25783</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25783</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Pavel]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2025 04:24:13 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Sun, 01 Jun 2025 03:57:15 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">Which brings us to the horror of problem players – they’re <em>trusted</em> before they make problems, and, in a sense, earn their flying monkeys by being good friends (at least for part of the association, and possibly even long term) to some people even as they’re screwing over others and manipulating their friends to help.</p>
<p dir="auto"><img src="https://y.yarn.co/560a9958-29f7-42a0-84eb-1aab692f098c_text.gif" alt="alt text" class=" img-fluid img-markdown" /></p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25781</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25781</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Gashlycrumb]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2025 03:57:15 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Echoes of the Past: Problem Players on Sat, 31 May 2025 22:20:35 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/60">@MisterBoring</a> said in <a href="/post/25733">Echoes of the Past: Problem Players</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p dir="auto">… I’ve run into players finding out that certain plots are restricted to certain IC groups that their PC isn’t part of, then immediately using every social engineering thing they can think of both IC and OOC to ingratiate their way into the plot,</p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto">I’ve certainly been accused of this. By you, even. But from my point of view, it’s been that there’s plot going on over there, and I would like to play too. So I try to get involved, and later discover that people think I’m trying to gatecrash even before I find out that the opening to participation I think I saw isn’t viable. And presumably it’s taken as malicious social engineering when I react to that by directly OOCly asking for plot-runners to open things up such that I can play. It’s not that I want to be in <em>every</em>  plot, or that I’m perversely drawn to try to be involved in things designed for Not Me. I want to be in <em>some</em> plot. And not some bullshit PBEM deal where I get one message every two weeks while spending the rest of the time unable to RP because everybody else is either RPing the plot that’s for Not Me or talking about the secrets thereof.</p>
<p dir="auto">The toxic in-crowd behavior that <a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="https://brandmu.day/uid/40">@Evilgrayson</a> is talking about almost invariably includes accusing people of trying to worm their way into <em>everything</em> when they’ve been excluded from <em>anything</em>.</p>
<p dir="auto"><img src="/assets/uploads/files/1748729755179-4f14731c-6138-4ef0-a20a-c3a6c487b7d0-image.png" alt="4f14731c-6138-4ef0-a20a-c3a6c487b7d0-image.png" class=" img-fluid img-markdown" /></p>
]]></description><link>https://brandmu.day/post/25772</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://brandmu.day/post/25772</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Gashlycrumb]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2025 22:20:35 GMT</pubDate></item></channel></rss>